Get PAID for Teaching in China

[waixingren]

There are plenty of well-paid ESL jobs in China. However, some of them aren't very good. I've turned down jobs that paid 12,000/month based on the fact that I didn't like the teaching methodology and thought I'd be bored. I've also had lower paying jobs (such as my not-so-good first experience) that paid for housing. My advice to all newbies in China is know the market and know what you want out of your job. Make sure you're getting a good deal--read through contracts very carefully and make sure they give you an English and Chinese version of it. Also be sure that your employer gets you a Z visa and Foreign Experts Certificate... otherwise, you'll be working illegally.

[chade]

Thank you for the post that offered some ethics into this terrible thread.

Firstly, this thread is effectively trying to start a foreigner's EFL "teacher's" union. Band together and demand higher money. What this will NOT do is drive up the wages (see point about the government mandated policies above). What it WILL do is make native English speakers too expensive to hire regularly. Maybe then they'll read some of the research out there and learn that hiring a native speaker is definitely NOT worth the investment, for the school or students.

If you are going to China (or even Japan/Korea) on the premise that you want to pay back your student loans or something (the greed motivation), then go ahead and try to make as much profit as you can. Without real teaching training (aka the 4-year teaching degree---certificates are joke!), you are wasting your student's time. As long as students and taxpayers keep supporting your schools, it is fine that you don't educate, because you are happy with effectively conning people out of their money for the "opprotunity" to..."learn" (speak?) from you. May as well take as much of the student's money as possible and then flee from the country to spend it more...well much less effectively. Schools will keep hiring as long as they keep getting money. However, it is the people like you that keep the system alive for native speaking instructors. Without people like you booking to China, they might actually have to resort to hiring non-native TEACHERS...or...can you believe it...investing in their local instructors! What? An EFL world without native speakers...?? So, go ahead and do your part in continuing to keep China's EFL education as poor as possible. That way you can pay back those loans (because you didn't get a job in the field you studied?).

Let's not forget about those people who are going there not for profit, but for a sense of adventure. While on that adventure (leaving the country is a big deal for a lot people..), it is best to capitalize on the local population and make some money right? China seems like a good place---good food, they write with those funky symbols that make cool t-shirts at home, hot girls, and more money than they know what to do with. This groups include those Chinaholics, mid-life crisis chaps, guys who like EAST asian girls (hope you don't end up in certain parts of China, guys...besides, if you want girls, why aren't you in JAPAN???), people who like the color red, and the rare man who didn't really understand what exactly he was signing up for (just like the guys back home in the chinese language courses..ha...). In the end, you accomplish the same as the first group, who are trying to make money....because...what else are you doing?

Oh, you say you have noble prospects of bring education, English, Christianity, democracy, and the revered monochromatic train schedules to the middle kingdom? How are you going to do that? Teach English you say? Why don't you go back and get a degree in social or educational development and start paying Chinese politicians? Oh, you want to work at the grassroots level you say? What about investing in teacher training programs to make locals more effective? How about improving immigration and lowering trade restrictions in your own country? Oh, you want to be there doing the work yourself, right? That must be because you have some special quality that the Chinese don't have and only YOU can bring it there. Right, go teach English, make your money, have your adventure, and go home without even attempting to work on those noble prospects.

Wait, there is the group who are sincerely interested in Chinese culture, language, or are even EFL professionals. If you are an EFL professional, you'll have the TESOL BA, teaching license, and maybe your masters. If you are are one of those qualified people (yes, all three of you over there!) who are interested in working in China, you are one of the rare people that may actually benefit yourself, your employer, AND your students. You are just as effective as even non-native teachers and therefore I wish you the best of luck in your teaching -career-. Culture and language? If you are studying the language for professional reasons, teaching may be a viable route. In this case however, you would get more from intensive language courses than putting yourself in an environment where you will speak English all day. The language specialists can be cool people though. Culture? Working on that Ph.D in Chinese Studies? Need to get more culture than a tourist visa will grant? Doing in-depth field research? Hope your grant covers it. What? Not affiliated with an institution? What, not even studying Chinese culture? What, never even heard of Hunan or Sichuan? Go back to school kiddo.

Sorry about the overly sarcastic post....but this thread's line of thinking is what really, really hurts English education in our world. Good for you unqualified, middle class, white, native English speakers who think going to a country with relatively low wages and trying to make wages that would be adequate back home by exploiting the local populat---oh nevermind. Do forgive me for the typos though, please...

[Hypiereon]

I have to take exception to the statement that this post is, or seems, all about GREED. What this post is NOT about is GREED, though I can see how it could be interpreted that way.

I also take exception to the allusion that my posts are unethical. To be unethical it would have to be outside expected norms for a society; however, what I'm describing is EXACTLY what you can expect when dealing with the Chinese culture. This IS how they do business here. Leave your ethical standards from your own country there! What I'm describing isn't unethical - it's outright trying to FIT IN!!!

What the other posters lack is perspective.

What this post is REALLY about is leveling the playing flield. The other posters who criticise this post are assuming nobility in the schools and the people who are hiring foreginers. This assumption, sad to say, has proven flat out WRONG on all occassions.

What - YOU think they opened a school because they want Chinese students to learn English?! YOU think they really just want to help the students?! YOU think they have everyone else's best interest, or even YOUR best interest in mind?! (moron)

There are nice, even very helpful people who work for schools, but I haven't met a single one of them who had my best interest in mind - ever. They smile a lot, are very polite, and the school WILL pay you as little as they can get away with. Soon as you're signed, they ask for more (more hours, more classes, photo ops, can you work at another school that we will get paid for and pay you a little, too - maybe.) This is routine. This is fact. This is what I'm trying to help people guard against.

Take your noble causes wherever you want. I have no problem with someone who wants to get paid nothing and volunteer all of their time to whatever cause they desire - but it should be a Choice THEY Make - not a choice a school or some other rip-off con artist makes for them, or one in which they feel pressured to make because they do not understand what in the world is going on.

When you don't look out for yourself and you get ripped off, don't read any of my threads and say you weren't warned. I've only peeled back and revlealed a small portion of what I know to be true about life in China from firsthand experience - not stories from someone else. It's ugly, and if you can't deal with it, go home; but don't judge my posts based on some ethical standard that is not even recognized in this country. Corruption is rampant at all levels of government, and you think that might not filter down?? Have you ever bought a 5 RMB pirated DVD and thought better of it because it was "unethical"? If you bought it anyway then you're nothing more than a hypocrite with high standards for everyone else but yourself.

This country wreaks of corruption and people out for themselves. I'm not saying it's a bad place to live, but it IS reality in this country. You had better learn to live in it and with it or just outright tolerate it - as for everyone else, don't try to tie other foreigner's hands with talk of "ethics" and "noble causes" just because you don't like it when a foreigner decides to play fair for a change.

[exported_kiwi]

Good onya Hyperion my ole mate! This person seems to have shades of pontification in his/her post and I, for one, take exception to it!

F.Y.I folks, I have no teaching qualifications whatsoever, but upon coming here (China) and actually doing the job, I found that I not only have an aptitude for it, but also love to do it. Since when does one have to be qualified to love ones job, whether it be teching or otherwise? I'll tellya; one doesn't need such a thing! What one needs is enthusiasm and dedication to providing the very best that they can to ensure the success of all. I take exception to the poster pointing out that anybody teaching in China is a white middle aged, midlife crisis kinda person. What a load of B.S! The only criterion I'd fit into there is that I'm white and that, in itself, is no recommendation, but my speaking abilities are, as are my,now highly referred, and hard learned teaching skills. Some folks actually love doing this work and those of us who take the time to make some sort of financial profit out of it shouldn't be referred to as greedy or anything like that. We should actually be referred to as smart and hard working because, one day, we're going to have to go home and to do so without some financial back up would be sheer lunacy.....refute that if you can!

To make a lot of money in China shouldn't be a moral crime although it seems to be with the poster that both Hyperion and I refute. Yes, many foreign teachers come here with the mere intention of doing minimal work, drinking as much cheap alcohol as possible and "scoring" with as many local girls (Hyperion is married, and I have a fiancee) as possible, but this cap doesn't fit all so I'd be a helluva more careful about stereotyping us. There are those of us who came here with the very best of intentions, made our mistakes and learned from them, and on the way, learned how to make some money too....tell me where it's written that making money is against any moral or national law! Yes, it's true that we're here to teach English, and work we do, but the schools we work for are, for the most part, pretty unscrupulous in their rather liberal interpretations of contracts, and what our time is actually worth etc. Some of us work for private schools where the prime motivation of the owner isn't to educate, but to make as much cash as they can so they can buy the latest Lexus or whatever tickles their fancy. if it's ok for them, I figure it's ok for us too! Yes, we make money, but we've done the time, we've taken the knocks, rolled with the punches and we're earning what we consider to be a fair income.....show me that's wrong please. I have no wish to listen to any over-moralising, pontificating git who thinks that their opinion, highly subjective, is the one that is applicable to all. My advice to the poster is to go to a place that truly can't afford to pay, and practice what you preach there because we're not interested in your stereotyping of us, as a group of people who are here to teach, and to be P.A.I.D for teaching too.

Also, for the posters info; yes, my fiancee is Chinese, has been my lady for 2.5 years and we'll marry later this year. I'm committed to her as she is to me, and because of her, I'm committed to China also, so if I'm going to be here long term, why shouldn't I be paid? I will point out that I've never gone out to womanise or get what I can take from the locals. It's usually the locals who try to get all they can out of us......chew on that cud and then come back............

As a closing shot, has the poster actually been to China and taught, makes one wonder huh?

Nuff said, peace y'all!

[waixingren]

Exported Kiwi has some good arguments (and congrats on getting married sometime soon, I'm in the same boat). I'll add a bit more that I've seen very recently...

Here in Shenzhen, I have noticed the salaries of foreign teachers declining over the past two years. Meanwhile, the standard of living is increasing as are rents. The price of a roundtrip ticket to the US is more than $2000 and most schools will only offer $800 (if anything) after a year as flight reimbursement. Right now I have a decent job but the pay isn't great. I'm leaving it for a better job with about equal pay... I tried to find a replacement and later discovered that the person I referred was offered more hours and less pay than I'm making. That's just insulting.

[exported_kiwi]

Hi waixingren,

Yeah, I've noticed the downward trend in remuneration for the foreign teachers. I'd have thought the the increasing competition for the choice jobs would've actually increased salaries rather than decreasing them because these days schools can take their pick in the main centres.

As for the cost of living, I've noticed that my bacon has increased significantly in cost as well as other little things I like to eat when I've had enough of Chinese food. I lived in Guangzhou for a year and rents etc there were horrendous where we were. Admittedly, I was in the most central part of Tianhe, right by Teemall, and I paid for the convenience of being there, but still, it was expensive. I was lucky though because I found a little shop, run by a lovely family who sold my favourite beer, Tsingtao, for only RMB3.5, and that kinda compensated for how much everyhting else cost. The only problem I had was that my fiancee found the call of the malls to enticing to resist and it was there that my pocket got hurt, but there ya go, we earn it, they spend it....the age old thing.

I'm now in Zengcheng which is kinda mid way between Gz and Shenzhen. I'll be down there next month, wanna message with a cell number, maybe we can meet and have a coffee.

Peace y'all!