Stay away from Santis, Ulaanbaatar

[TDog]

I have taught ESL for more than 15 years. Teachers STAY AWAY from this place!!! No joke! Santis IS DANGEROUS. I would NOT RECOMMEND IT for anyone, at least westerners.

They prefer Russians (the owner-director has a brother who is a major communist party representative in the parliament), and they sabotage your teaching (they have reps come in during class and disrespectfully attempt to conduct business). They will also come to your apartment without invitation and try to conduct bull**** "interviews" - as well as require you to "staff" in your limited free time. This place needs to be closed as an ESL school. What has been said here about Shawn is correct, he will rip you off and hasn't the slightest ESL insight into what ESL is - though his wife IS Mongolian.

STAY AWAY FROM SANTIS! There is more danger than I can mention here.

[sao paulo]

I wish I had taken more notice of this, I worked for these people recently, and ended up in a mess trying to get out of the country and being refused by Orgilmaa the power hungry nut job who calls herself a School Director, this is not an American school and the guy who set this place up has long gone from Mongolia because of places like this. But since Mongolians have no respect for copyright law or anything else that would have a negative affect on them ... hey why should they care!

I had problems with working hours which are crazy, and the pay is very bad for the hours you must work, the contract is not worth a shit. And if you go on an invititation letter with them they trap you in the country and Orgilmaa won't let you leave until she's happy, she is really insane and I think she has some mental problem. All these people care for is money and the weak English staff who work for are the same, in fact they're worse because they know what it's like to move to another country and still they take advantage of people who are doing the same as them. The schools Director has friends in the media and her brother was Minister for Education and she uses this to her advantage.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

[sao paulo]

I heard from a man at the Bar at the British Embassy that one American girl who's visa was cancelled because Orgilmaa said she had done something wrong, was stranded in the country and had to travel to the border alone to get a new visa was raped by a taxi driver and the school did nothing to help her.

IF YOU DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE THINGS YOU ARE STUPID. If you go to the country on their invitation you cannot get out without their permission, this is serious and you'll be in a lot of trouble, they are also close friends with the British Embassy and they will turn a blind eye as well.

[TDog]

Seems like a little more 'splaining is necessary!

No, Santis canNOT "hold you" in Mongolia, have no fear. The western embassies have long taken note of Santis' dangerous business practices. Santis cannot and will not be able to hold you or force you to do anything! I mean the US and British embassies. By all means check with them if you wish, they are friendly and both have clean and clear missions - with many a complaint about miserable little Santis' unusual and out of line business practices.

Santis *does ask some of the girls to Friday mixers at the British embassy, true enough. As a teacher I refused because my instinct was not right, uncomfortable. But this does not mean at all that Santis can hold or force people in beautiful Mongolia to do anything out of line!


Mongolia is beautiful, breathtaking! If you are there, enjoy it, get away from Santis and have a great time!

All I can say it, Santis is already blacklisted, internationally so, and if you go there they will try to mess with you if you are a westerner, especially female. Waste of time and dangerous.

[sao paulo]

If this is help and transparency then I'm the King of Spain ... Andrew Orgil is married to Orgilmaa Dalgoon, I'm sure he has not changed his name of tax reasons either!

Ambassador visits English language Training Centre

Date: 2007-03-30 11:03:53

IN A recent visit to Santis educational services, his Excellency Chris Osborne, Ambassador for the UK, accompanied by Deputy Head of Mission and Vice-Consul, Mr. Peter O'brien, inspected the newly refurbished language center.
It has been selected by the Ministry of Education for English language teacher training for the whole of Mongolia. The Ambassador commented that Santis, who train the British Embassy's local Mongolian staff in general English, was again bought to his attention whilst inspecting a mining project in the Gobi Desert. Santis, known as one of the best language centers in Mongolia, was commissioned to deliver general English courses for the local population by the mining project. This warranted a closer inspection and he later commented that this was not just the best language provision he had seen in Mongolia, but also was better than any other he had seen in other countries during his service as Her Majesties Ambassador. His visit comprised a tour of the new iBT TOEFL lab. Using the latest computer hardware available and housed in a pleasant learning environment, students can also have access to an extensive English language lending-library. He came across some small groups of students and spoke with many of them as he toured the general English department. He noted in particular the accolades awarded to Santis since 1999, including more recently those of 'Best School of Mongolia' and 'Employer of the Year'. UB POST

[TDog]

And did the good Ambassador compliment the books and lab - or the teachers? Such easy work, walking by and checking out a book by the covers! I remember it. Startling because I was sort of new then.

And did the good ambassador have a chance to evaluate a student or two? I don't remember that!!! Why? I was there for the visit. So the flowery words are just more old style russian "for-show".

What they said, was a compliment for the books, and the hardware!!! And words in UB Post are cheap - and ditto for Mongol Messenger.

It reminded me of a cheap Russian show, you know where they are dressing up the Russian school when the nachalstvo bosses coming. So yes the books are great, in this school called Santis, with 100 percent TEACHER turnover in 2 months or so, in that little school where they come to your apartment unannounced and pay you late, and dont provide you with high tech materials such as a computer (the Mongolians have the computers and the foreign teachers have to ask to borrow it, and the printer!) - the labs are GREAT, yes, the books are pretty and the STUDENTS ARE FORCED TO PAY AND PAY FOR THE BOOKS REDUNDANTLY! I watched SANTIS DO IT!!!.

But for the teachers - and this is a teachers' board, remember, not one that can suck up shilly shally by reference to some over-doted-on authorities- for the teachers this miserable school should be AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS!!!


Your reference to the king of Spain is great. Shall we now recall that the King of Spain said last fall to the president of another country, "Callate la Boca!" Well, in my class I wold have the same remarks for you if you were lying like this, I would repeat the King's words: "Callate la Boca!"

[sao paulo]

I told people at Embassies about my problem including the British Embassy, because Mr Orgil is so close to them, and they said "If they are not happy with you, and you come to the country on their invitation why shouldn't they ask you to leave." This is fair enough, it's not their problem but to pretend to be offering help or taking notice and then laughing with their Jolly Chums on a Friday night. This is a typically 'English"thing to say. Nice to your face or to people they see are more important than you. And then they shit on you from above.

No Embassy is able to help this is because they hold public offices and have to remain objective, whether they want to or not. Good for them if they can do that, but I think with people they mix with socially, like the English at the Steppe Inn (what a wonderful play on words), the lines are a little more "Blurred".

YES Mongolia is a nice country, and I had a good time travelling with little trouble apart from a few drunks wanting my money. And the usual problems that come with being a tourist. But for Teachers Santis is the worst choice you could make, and you won't get the chance to travel in Mongolia because of the pitiful salary, the stupid hours, and most of all the management, and if you last out your contract you'll be in too much of a hurry to get out of the country before you go totally crazy. I worked for Success school also and the director was the nicest person I met in the country so yes some people can be very good to work for and you meet a lot of friendly and helpful people. I feel I was also treated badly because I'm not a native speaker but many ESL/EFL Teachers are not and I have never had any problems anywhere else in Asia where I've worked despite countries in this region being re - knowned for expecting perfection.

[malinkyhoy]

What's more 'Schools situated in Mongolia's modern cosmopolitan capital city! Mongolia is most definately a third world country, they have the highest aid per head in the world and still there are only a handful of paved roads in UB and most of the infrastructure being built by the Russians in the 50's and 60's.

PLEASE NOTE: ANYONE WORKING AT SCHOOLS IN MONGOLIA SHOULD TAKE CARE NOT TO HAND OVER ORIGINAL DEGREE CERTIFICATES. Some schools if not most will insist that they should hold your original certificates until you complete your contract, mainly to keep you from doing a runner. However there is a good chance they will be copied and possibly sold, this is a problem I have personally had issues with since leaving Mongolia.

[sao paulo]

School

How many schools do you have?
Santis Educational Services currently has 3 schools. We have plans to expand in 2008. Santis is also a member of the worldwide Inlingua schools of languages - we’re a truly global service.

Where are your schools based/situated?
All our schools are currently based in the modern, cosmopolitan capital City of Mongolia - UlaanBaatar.

'Mongolia is slowly developing Third World Country, Ulaanbaatar has only a few tarmaced roads and regularly has power shortages.' The water is also heavily polluted with heavy metal contamination from Cyanide and Mercury used in mining in the country.

Who and what levels will I have to teach?
You will have the opportunity to teach all ages at all levels from beginner through to advanced. You will also enjoy more specialist areas, such as the Santis Diploma or Business English and Teacher Training.

'Yes you will Teach all kinds of people, some you will have to travel for around 45 minutes to reach, This will not be included in your working hours.'

How many hours do I have to work?
On average you should only expect to give 28 classroom hours per week. We would then expect around 12 out-of-class hours for lesson preparation.

'So 40 hours not 28, this means, and this is what happened to me and all of the people on this site, when the school runs out of Teachers, that they'll say you now have to Teach this extra 12 hours in the class room. And probabaly not be paid for them. Unless Andrew's poor elderly mother comes on holiday again and he has her teaching with you, as he has in past years.'

(How often) will I have to work at the weekends?
As Santis offers weekend classes, on occasion Saturday hours will be required. You should not have to do any more than 26 per year. Once a month is typical.

'You'll be required to work most weekends due to the increase in classes through the summer and the drop off in teachers that WON'T be replaced at the same time. If you refuse Orgilmaa will hate you forever. and persecute you.'


Apartment

Is the apartment shared with another teacher?
It is very possible that you will have the pleasure of living with one of your colleges. For those solitary types, your own apartment can be arranged. Alternatively you are welcome to arrange your own residency. In this case Santis will pay an extra $200 per month, tax free, as rent allowance.

Is the apartment close enough to walk to school?
Yes – all our apartments are within walking distance. Of course taxis and buses run close to our apartments and schools too.

'Yes you need to be close because of all those hours and so the management can keep a close eye on you.'
...

How much should I expect to pay for the cost of the amenities each month?

It is unlikely that you’ll have to pay anymore than $50 dollars each month to cover the cost of the extras in your apartment. A small price to pay for your creature comforts.

'This should be around 10,000 - 15,000 Tugriks ($10 - 15 USD) PM. It's more because Santis collect the bill from the Landlords who are also members of Orgilmaa's family. There are no paper bills in Mongolia you have to collect them yourself from the Electricity company, heating and water are free. And Satellite TV is $4 USD PM.


Contract

Do I still get my bonus & flights if I leave within the first year?
To receive our very competitive bonus package you must work a full continuous year.

If I stay for a second year, do I loose my flight bonus?
The flight bonus is only available to those who have successfully completed a one year contract and now wish to travel to a new destination. If you renew your contract for a second year, Santis will roll this over and on completion of the new contract your flight bonus will be provided.


'Orgilmaa will say you did something wrong a few months before your contract ends and you will NOT get your free flight home.' What Orgilmaa says goes' so it's a waste of time arguing.'

Do I receive a health insurance?
There is no private health insurance scheme available in Mongolia. However ther is good provision for hospital treatment if it becomes neccessary.

Yes there is private health care available called the S.O.S Hospital, you should travel with private health insurance as the Mongolian Health Care system is archaic. And the Dr's are pretty poor at medical expertise and/or practice is concerned.

What happens if I am off work because I’m sick?
Like all of Mongolia there is no statutory “sick pay” provided to our employees, but if you are unavailable to work through illness your position is guaranteed once you are ready to return to work.

'You will not be paid for being sick, whatever the problem is, and they will not let you leave the country until they are happy with you, you will also have to get a Drs letter for everyday you're off sick. Even if it's only one.

Can I be paid in cash and can I be paid in Dollars?
You can be paid in cash and you can be paid in either dollars or the local currency. This can be arranged with your Director of Studies before your first pay-day. we will also open a bank account for you if necessary.

NO I was never paid in USD despite stipulating this when I signed my contract, they ONLY pay in Tugrik and will ignore any request to be paid in USD.


Visa

Do I Need a visa to work in Mongolia?
Yes you do without exception. Santis will apply for your visa, work permit and residential permit before you enter the country. You will need to present your passport to a Mongolian Embassy to be issued with your documents before you arrive in Mongolia. We will guide you through the process, which normally takes a few weeks, but the visa process once granted takes hours, so it can be issued whilst you wait. Please note the if you arrive with a tourist visa you will not be able to work legally in Mongolia.

AMERICAN'S do NOT need a tourist visa to come to Mongolia, they get a three month Visa waiver. British people DO need a tourist Visa, this can be processed the same day at the London Embassy. If you go to Mongolia and find a job your employer CAN convert your visa for you, ALSO you can have work visa's transfered from one employer to another. BUT SANTIS WILL INSIST YOU LEAVE THE COUNTRY, rather than agree to a transfer. Fees apply as per nationality for visa transfers and conversations.



Mongolia & UB

Are the locals nice?

The local Mongolian people are indeed very nice. You might expect from their history - Genghis Chan - that the culture, like some other Asian countries, contains a violent nature but this is certainly not the case. Think Sumo not KungFu!

THERE IS A PROBLEM IN MONGOLIA WITH RACISM and brutality towards westerners and women, including numerous rapes in Mongolia during 2006 - 2008. I personally know of 4 sexual attacks on British and American women. You van buy mace in the city.

Do they like us Westerners in their country?

On the whole the people are very welcoming. They are aware that English is a global language and for the countries future English teachers must come here to teach. There is certainly never any xenophobia from your colleagues or students.

BULLSHIT!

Is the City safe for a foreigner?

Of course like all large cities UlaanBaatar contains its unsavory elements but these are few and far between and easily avoided.

You can walk across UB in 30 minutes, these "unsavoury" elements include Mongolian Police Officers and Soldiers, who will ask for your passport, which, they will say you have to carry on your person. THIS IS NOT TRUE. If you hand it over, it'll cost you about $250 to get it back through various bribes.

What do they do in their spare time/out of work?
UlaanBaatar is a large city and nearly all walks of life are provided for. You will find a rich and diverse a range of things to do outside of work as you would in any Capital. Whatever your “Thing” I’m sure Mongolia has it to offer.

'You can drink and use the internet in UB, Mongolia is too big to visit on a few days off and the nearest place of interest in 2 -3 hours outside the city. Other places are days away.


What’s Mongolia like outside of the Capital City?

Wow - breathtaking country. Green lands, Clear Rivers and Blue Skies. Mountains and Valleys unrivaled anywhere else and a traditional Nomadic lifestyle that still thrives - You have to see this place to believe it. Untouched by the modern world and Mongolia is proud to boast the cleanest air on the planet.

Will I have an opportunity to explore the countryside?
Yes – Trips into the heart of the countryside are always available. Follow this link to mongolianation.com and see for yourself.

Unfortunately you will not get the time off you need to visit these beautiful places.

[lmbeharry]

My Posting from Dave's ESL Cafe:

Did you see this thread?

Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - Santis Educational Services, Ulaanbaatar Monogolia

I live in UB, and I firmly believe that Santis' negative reputation is based on truth. I applied there in April 2006 and through the application process they lied. They cost me $300 in fines because I believed Orgilmaa (Director) when she told me "not to worry" about my teaching visa. I actually taught there for a week (they never paid me). It went like this. I told them that I teach with audio-visual and that I needed to scan pages from the book to use with the video projector. So, there I am busting my buns to access the scanner to do some productive work. Wouldn't ya know it, the entire senior staff goes to lunch and locks up the scanner. What the hell! Do they want me to underperform?

Anyway, when they return they open the admin office so I can get to the scanner and I am madly scanning so I can teach my class. Orgilmaa's (not too bright - to put it mildly) English husband tells me to get out and that I was looking at his computer to find his valuable trade and business secrets. I was tremendously happy that I spent only three days there...

Don't waste your time with them. They are unprofessional, unreliable, and likely Sadists, to boot!

Try Engram (Home - I designed the site) if you want an ESL job in UB Mongolia!

lmb