Stay away from Santis, Ulaanbaatar

[Motivated]

Santis is the worst school I have ever worked in. The directors, a Mongolian woman, Orgilmaa (who has never taught even a single hour English in her life) and her English fiance Andrew Orgil, have zero respect or concern for the welfare of their foreign teaching staff. Orgilmaa has made several teachers' lives living hell, all based on whether she likes them or not.

When I raised my disgruntlement at working an average of 35 hours per week (often for 9 hours straight at a time) and then Saturdays, the response I got from Andrew Orgil was this: 'My heart pumps piss for you' - not exactly the kind of thing a good manager should say to an employee.

Then there are the 'rules': teachers WITHOUT EXCEPTION must teach until 5 minutes to the hour, then they have 5 MINUTES to get back to the staff room, ditch the previous lesson, grab everything for the next lesson and be seated in the classroom and teaching dead on the hour. Failure to do so (which is almost always the case) results in reprimands for wasting the students' time and money. Bit of a joke considering Mongolians by nature don't run their lives according to clocks, and students turn up to classes whenever they feel like it. Toliet breaks - forget it. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES are teachers permitted to leave the classroom at any time for any reason - not even for the call of nature. During one 3 hour lesson I found myself busting, and if it's good enough to let my students go if need be then it's good enough for me too. I got a severe reprimand for that one.

I recently left Santis after I was belittled by Andrew Orgil in front of my adult Level 4 class. Santis is well-known for cancelling working visas in the event of teacher/director fallouts. They are trying to do this to me, even though I was made to pay for my own working visa - also highly unusual. Orgilmaa has since told my fellow teachers that I was sacked for being condescending and rude to my students. I am considering legal action for slander.

Santis contracts are also very dodgy. Teachers are required to work 120 contact hours per month, but after this there is a 9-hour buffer period before any overtime is paid. This means the school gets a full extra working day out of every teacher without paying them. Santis has lost 4 good teachers in the past month due to total disgruntlement and the sheer arrogance and mismanagement on the part of the directors.

Avoid this miserable little school at all costs, unless you think it'd be fun to work for an evil iron maiden who thinks Stalin was a bit of softy.

[Elisa]

I wish I had read this review of Santis before embarking on my own journey there! Orgilmaa Doloonjin can be a complete nightmare. When I spoke to several ex-teachers who worked there and they called her a "slave driver", "black widow", and her school a "sweatshop". I will post my own thread as I have a LOT to say.

[Gxxx]

Orgilmaa is well known for her bad attitutudes amongst everyone including workers and relatives. She is always in conflict with others. She was single for a long time having multiple relationships with various elderly foreigners in Mongolia. She reached her current position through her relationship with Ed Nef.

[malinkyhoy]

As I mentioned before not only does Santis treat it's employee's badly, pay badly, offer no support to it's teachers and employ un - qualified staff. But they will F**k up any other job you have in the country as much as possible.

After I left Santis, I started editing a newspaper called the Mongol Messenger. Unfortunately I didn't realise Orgilmaa the woman who runs Santis, had a friend who also works for the paper, this and the fact that Orgilmaa's brother is the head of the Communist party in the Mongolian Government, got me sacked immediately... Then in a baazar move the paper awarded her the "best employer of the year award" and "The best teaching institute" award soon followed.

Mongolia is a pretty corrupt country and this should be kept in mind if you're coming to work here. The problem with Santis is that it's co-run by a British guy called Andrew Orgill and his nephew runs the new school on the other side of the city, and they're currently trying to increase ties with the British Embassy to help their students get visa's for the UK. The co-director of the new school in the 3rd and 4th Micro District is also well known for sleeping with his students. All said and done, the organization is as corrupt as it could be and doesn't care about anything other than making money.

[Earthsea]

Well I'm very happy I found this website as I've recently been in touch with Orgilmaa about working for Santis!

But I'm also a little sad as I've wanted to go to Mongolia for about as long as I can remember and every time I look online for work there, Santis is the only company that comes up.

Does anyone know of any other way/place I can find work in Monglia?

[gfell]

Originally Posted by Earthsea

Does anyone know of any other way/place I can find work in Monglia?

Please keep your discussion on topic. This thread is about Santis. Your above question would be better placed into the Teaching Destinations - China. I have seen job ads in the China Job Forum for Mongolia jobs, so I suggest taking a look in there.

[malinkyhoy]

Hello,

They're loads of good schools in Mongolia, although many of them do not advertise on the net. Here are a few of them; No 3 Joint Mongolian Russian School (state School) Hartford English Langauge Institute (part of the Raffles group) American School of Ulaan Baatar, International School Ulaan Baatar, there are also a number of other good private and state run schools, a few of the state schools specialize in language teaching, for example No 3 School, all of the state schools have numbers, which is how the Russians built and named them.

Pay differs from school to school for example; Santis claims to be one of the highest paying schools in UB paying a monthly salary of $600, however the international school, American school and hartford all pay around $2,000 pm.

You can come here on a 30 day tourist visa and find a jod, most employers will pay to have your visa converted into a working visa, or pay yourself which costs about $150 depending on your nationality!

Many of the students are pretty spoilt and have little respect for their teachers, they're lazy and cheat alot, worst students were a bunch of Proffessors from the veteranary school who did nothing but cheat! Although the ESL community here is pretty small but very friendly and as helpful as you could wish for. Check out Dave's English pub (you can find it in the LP) there are always loads of positions advertised on the notice board.

Hope this helps,

Damien.

[Motivated]

Yeeeessss...... Orgilmaa a.k.a. The Black Widow and Santis being awarded Employer of the Year in Mongolia just goes to show any one who might be interested in living and working here just how corrupt the country is...I chuckle when I picture Orgilmaa throwing a (well-rehearsed) performance of stunned astonishment when being told of her pending and wholly undeserving accolade.......that's Mongolia for ya....just when you thought you'd seen it all....

One more thing: $600/148 (4 x 37 hours p.w.) = a whopping $4.05 per hour!!! Yes, Santis you definitely ARE competitive. McDonald's pays more....

[Motivated]

Okay, here's another example of Santis telling filthy lies. This has been copied and pasted from Dave's ESL Cafe. It was written by Shawn Lafferty who just happens to be Andrew Orgil's relation. Blood is thicker than water. My comments at the end...

Mongolia

It’s true there are some ugly comments out there. They are spearheaded by a former employee that has made a mission of ruining the reputation of our school and several other schools for which he has worked in this city as well as certain individuals.

We are seeking legal action but in a developing country which is not sophisticated enough to have slander and libel laws, it is difficult. I’ll tell you that the one truth in that mess is that several years ago the number of hours per week for foreign teachers was much higher. They were teaching up to 40 hours per week and that’s too much and enough to make anyone angry.

We now have a maximum of 28 contact hours per week.
The rest of the comments are usually related to something about Santis trying to prevent someone from leaving the country.

What happens with this is that we have young, not fully mature people here that sign a one year contract and then decide halfway through that they want to move on to another place and, rather than talk to us about it, they just stop coming to work and try so skip out. Well, in order to leave, the school (or any company employing a foreigner) must release the worker’s work permit to the government.

So these people will go to the airport without telling us, then they have trouble because they don’t have the proper releases, then they blame the employer for trying to prevent them from leaving when actually the problem is that they didn’t take the necessary and respectful step of communicating with us.
We have had many teachers who have had to leave for a death in the family or some other emergency who have talked to us and we have released them without incident. Basically, as long as you communicate with us and tell us what you want to do, anything is possible.

You are right to be concerned about these things when making a huge decision like going to Mongolia. I’m happy to address any individual issues you may be concerned about and I’m happy to do so without obligation. I can assure you we are a reputable school and our teachers enjoy a very comfortable life. I’ve been here for one and a half years and I have found that to be true in that time. Please let me know if I can be of assistance. After my salutation, please find a general notice that may be of use.

Sincerely
Shawn Lafferty
Academic Director
Santis Educational Services
Mongolia

Okay...

Lie #1: Since Santis I have only been employed in ONE other school. It is a very good school and I am about to sign on for my third year teaching there. They have been nothing but great support during difficult times (family issues, illness etc.) and place no unreasonable expectations or demands upon their teachers. Maybe this is why they have a very high retention rate. So WHO are these other SCHOOLS and INDIVIDUALS whose reputations I have ruined?? The answer is NO schools and NO individuals. If you would care to name names, Mr. Laugher-ty, I would be happy to contact those schools and individuals and ask them if they would come to your defense on these issues. There's really no reason why they shouldn't or wouldn't back you up that I'M the problem and not YOU or your school.

Lie #2: Legal action. This is simply not possible and you know it . Santis has absolutely no power of jurisdiction over any comments written about them in cyberspace. The USA is currently trying to define legal boundaries of internet usage, and obviously there are many grey areas regarding freedom of speech etc. Mongolia is light years away from even attempting to address any of these issues. ESL blacklists exist for a very good reason: to warn others who are willing to pack up their homes and lives and move to a new and very different country about the schools/insitutes to steer well clear of. Now had I had the luck of being warned about Santis then I would have been spared the total nightmare that is Andrew Orgil, Orgilmaa and Santis, who dare to fly an American flag when there is abolutely no amercian connection other than Ed Neff who is years long gone. Potential clients are tricked into believing that it is an American operation and not a farce being operated by people with little management and social skills.

Lie #3: "Young, not fully mature people sign a one year contract then decide halfway through that they want to move on to another place" - Hmm...I'd like to think that besides some of the silly young BACKPACKERS on TOURIST VISAS you get working for you illegally, most qualified ESL teachers are fairly grounded and actually have a higher level of maturity than their friends in their home countries. The reason they don't talk to you about wanting to leave is because Santis "management" is unapproachable and unreasonable. Then you say they do stupid things like go to the airport and then realise they can't leave without an exit visa. I ask everyone to read Elise's post "Santis and Orgilmaa - A Real Liffe Nightmare" in this site's blacklist. Then you will see why leaving Santis and Mongolia is on par with Prison Break. Even with serious illness Santis acted like complete bastards. You have NO RIGHT to prevent people from being released in the event of such family tragedy. DISGUSTING. SHAME ON YOU.

I'd just like to add for the record that you, Mr. Laugher-ty, have never even met me. Where you get your lies from is obvious, I'd expect nothing less from Andrew Orgil and Orgilmaa. Those two deserve each others' world of fraudulence!

[malinkyhoy]

From what I've been led to understand Mr Lafferty is Mr Orgil's Nephew neither of whom possess any kind of teaching experience or qualifications. As for the maturity of their staff everyone who I met whilst working at the school were at least in their mid twenties or older, except for a couple of back packers they had working for them in the summer of 2006, which is illegal in Mongolia.
So what do you consider as mature? considering the adds for Santis all state that they will take new graduates, who I cam only assume must be qualified teachers as well.

As for not trusting or communicating with Santis about problems they might have, everyone I know who dared to complain was dealt with in a less than appropriate way, who later incurred fines for non - existent damage to their apartments, nor is it easy to trust them when the costs of you exit visa, which you need to leave the country and can't get without a letter from your employer saying you're allowed to leave the country, has shot up to $200 + when it should cost you $35 max! because "They dealt with it" for you.

Or when you get threatened with the sack because some student accuses you off hitting them because you wouldn't give them an A, before you can open you're mouth to defend yourself or even sit down for that matter!

With regards to the working hours, of course when Mr Lafferty refers to the working hours of 40 plus being several years ago, he means 2005 - 2007, which is when all the people on this site worked for you. And is probably still ongoing. Management support is none existent and the only people I received any support from were my fellow teachers and my students most of which were admirable in their behaviour and eager to learn.

As for the rest, and as I've said before Mongolia can be a wonderful experience, there are many good schools new and old and these places are screaming for native english teachers and most of them pay much better than Santis and demand an awful lot less. If you want to work in Mongolia it's best to go on a tourist visa, if you decide you want to stay you can find a job and you're employer will then be able to convert your visa for you. If you travel on a visa based on a INVITATION which is what SANTIS provide you'll only be provided with a one way ENTRY visa (you need a ENTRY EXIT visa to get out again) which means you'll be stuck in the country the moment you land and won't be able to to leave until they say you can ... even after you have completed your contract without problems, it can be an issue getting your letter of release from the school and I know people who have suffered with this recently.