Value of a Degree vs. value of Cert.

[Willie]

I do not mean to offend anyone, but it has come to my attention that doing a CELTA, TESOL, TESL etc. and in the process attaining the certificate will give you an advantage to get a job and teach overseas as to a person that has a Bachelor of education majoring in ESL.

Is this true?

The reason I ask this is that it came up in the lecture the other day, and if the cert. does outweigh a degree and major, what is the point of doing the major when i can just get the cert? I am not saying my ESL major is useless at all.

What are your views?

[gfell]

This is not true at all. In many countries, if you don't hold a minimum Bachelor's degree, then you don't even have a chance at teaching abroad. Many schools require you to hold a degree in order to have you issued a work permit. In many cases, "no degree = no job and no visa".

The advantages of a TEFL / Celta qualification is that it's focussed on the task of teaching ESL students, and will give you the tools you require to peform in the classroom.

So your statement that a TEFL / Celta qualification is better than a degree is completely wrong.

[EF English First]

Interesting question Willie,

In terms of visa processing a degree is needed for some regions i.e. Thailand and to some degree China. In others a TEFL certificate is needed but not a degree i.e. in Indonesia.

These are governmental requirements. Employers may have a different take. I would imagine most employers would see a 4-week cert as equivalent to a BEd provided it had some element of observed teaching practice with non-English speakers. If this element is not present, it could be a sticking point with some employers.

A Government requiring a TEFL cert should recognise that a degree in the field is an equivalent or a higher qualification (unless of course they are looking for a little sweetener to process the visa application).

[kdavid]

You may also want to consider that a BA in ESL is quite specialized. What types of graduate degrees / options might be open to someone with a BA in ESL?

Perhaps a question for everyone: is getting a degree in ESL a career-limiting choice? Compare alongside someone who majored in education or English that can go on to law school, etc.

Along the same line of thought, many people don't major in ESL, so some time of training / certification needs to be provided for those, say, engineering, journalism, etc. majors that haven't studied education.

[skydolphin]

The same question could be asked inside the US. Several days ago a large article in USA today indicated there is a severe shortage of skilled trades people. It went on to say society is pressuring people to
get four year degrees and it is killing the trades. These are not just joe six pack jobs but include highly skilled occupations.
There are skilled trades shortages in other
countries too. TESOL is to a point a skilled trade. Too many people let their degrees go to their heads. You need qualified teachers to teach. A degree
in a subject unrelated to teaching doesn't
always suffice. Recruiters will have to consider other qualifications when they
get complaints that their degreed teachers don't always produce results.

[Willie]

Thanks for the replies. I was only curious to a sense, not contemplating anything. Doing a BA in EDU majoring in ESL would allow me to teach in language schools around the country. They would not necessarily tie in with Universities. I am guessing they would be independently run?

Where as maybe getting a CELTA etc. would better equip me with tools to teach in another environment and make me more aware of my surroundings? I think I am confusing myself here. But I would already be equipped to teach after the BA in EDU.

Another would be teaching ESL in mainstream schools. I don't know how many of you would care, but recently EDU QLD have announced that they are trialling ESL as an actual subject in high school. Those ESL learners or international students would qualify for this subject. Like mainstream English, it is OP eligible. Schools currently offer 2; English; and English communication, the latter not being OP eligible. So the 3rd option would offer more ESL positions in mainstream schools. I guess that's how it goes.

[Antonio]

A CELTA or TEFL course would be more focussed on the job at hand - teaching ESL students.

A uni course majoring in Education will prepare you to teach in that country in the public school system. Very little of the curriculum would be focussed on ESL.

[Willie]

Oooo no no no Antonio

The degree is a Bach of Education (secondary) majoring in ESL. So that WOULD focus on the teaching of the ESL curriculum. Maybe just that country, but it would still be relevant in other countries.

I just wanted to know how it (ESL major) would go up against a cert in TESOL etc.

[Antonio]

Oh, if you have a Bachelor degree in Education, then I wouldn't even bother with a teaching certificate. These are more suited to those who haven't studied anything about education. I would think your next stepping stone is a Grad. Certificate or Grad. Diploma in Education. You should perhaps maybe consider this via correspondence.

Charles Sturt Uni has great correspondence courses.

[AdvantageEnglish]

I have a feeling he doesn't have the cert or the BA yet and he's weighing up his options...

If you're doing it just to get work O.S... its the choice between a few months versus a few years.... and ending up in the same workforce...often times on the same salary....hmmm...tough decision....gimme a minute...

If you already had a BA - secondary ESL, then you wouldn't need the CERT.
Any employer who asks for it doesn't appreciate or respect your qualifications and you wouldn't want to work there anyhoo.

If you have a Bachelor's degree in another field...not Education... and you're thinking of doing a second Bachelor's degree - in Education, this time...you'd be better off doing the MASTER OF TEACHING DEGREE at Sydney University... its a Masters by coursework... only assessed thru written assignments and a large practical component...very hands on..... like an apprenticeship in teaching... No prior Education Qualifications required...as long as you have a Bachelor's Degree.