Fully qualified applicants without degrees need not apply

[skydolphin]

Why is it like overnight almost all employers want a teacher with a DEGREE of any type even with the option of not having a TESOL certificate?

Picture this... there is an opening to teach basic English to adults. One applicant has a degree in Agriculture another has a professional DIPLOMA in Journalism, she is multiligual, manages a multicultural radio station and has a TESOL certificate. The Agricultural graduate gets the job.

There are many fine post secondary institutes that are accredited which issue Diploma and Certificates. I can understand an employer wanting a fluent person that has completed post secondary education.

One other point we have been living all our lives in an English speaking environment and have spent 12 or more years in formal education. In contrast to people who have lived in a non English country all of us have alot to teach.

Lets call a spade a spade... those without a degree have been knowing forced to take a bad card. A university degree has sex appeal, your part of the elite. No matter how good your accredited post secondary education is your part of the unwashed and ignorant, you don't have a degree.

I still have to remind myself that inspite of improvement in human rights in this part of the world, racism, bigotry and ignorance is still widespread. It has certainly raised it very ugly head in the TESOL field. If you don't have a degree you don't fit in although you are qualified.

I do appreciate the right of other countries to maintain their standards but many don't require a degree. My point is that alot of employers seem bigoted and uninformed and won't see that a degree is the only indication of a work ethic and the ability to master a subject and train others.

[cool ice]

If I were an employer, I would only hire a degree holder. Reason being is that there is enough supply out there of qualified degree holding teachers. So why on earth would I take someone with only a diploma or certificate?

A degree also shows that someone is disciplined enough to get thru Uni, set goals and balance work loads. Discipline is also what is required in any workplace.

Therefore, a degree holder would win hands down if I were an employer!

[skydolphin]

Your a prime example of the type of mindset I was speaking about.

People with perception and intelligence can make their own judgement. Join the circus. Intelligent successful independant people don't need the support of a degree. I do take my hat off to the folks that have successfully completed your degree with some exceptions. Cheers

[skydolphin]

Two other items came to my mind after posting. Cool Ice stated there is a surplus of degree holders. True. Many of those people holding degrees are looking for work locally and are tied down to family reponsibilities and aren't available to work abroad. Given the expectations that co-orelate with their education the thought of spending a year of living in hardship in a developing country doesn't interest many of them. Many have sufficient funds to take a proper vacation abroad and be satisfied.

The other item. People choose where to get their education. I spent a year at University and wasn't satisfied. I wasn't learning what I knew I needed. I went to another Post Secondary School and got what I needed and I'm satisfied. The students were serious and focused unlike University which has too much political unrest and partying for my comfort.

I do appreciate people for making their choices and and wish the best.

[cool ice]

You make some very general and sweeping comments about university graduates. Just because the university you attended for 1 year turned out to be no good, doesn't mean that all universities are like this.

Your're comments really don't make sense.

Originally Posted by skydolphin

Given the expectations that co-orelate with their education the thought of spending a year of living in hardship in a developing country doesn't interest many of them. Many have sufficient funds to take a proper vacation abroad and be satisfied.

I'm univeristy educated and would love the chance to teach in Africa or some 3rd world countries. Teachers who head to 3rd world countries do so not for the money obviously, but for their kindness to help others and appreciate life more. Sure, no-one wants to live in hardship. Those who go to teach in Africa do not live in hardship. They have clean accommodation and enough food everyday. They are not living like some of the poorer locals.

After university, many will have huge debts and need to pay of their loans. So I don't think they would have sufficient funds to take luxurious holidays abroad.

[rajat.pay]

Originally Posted by skydolphin

Your a prime example of the type of mindset I was speaking about.

People with perception and intelligence can make their own judgement. Join the circus. Intelligent successful independant people don't need the support of a degree. I do take my hat off to the folks that have successfully completed your degree with some exceptions. Cheers

Allow me to explain a few rules that we(employers) abide by. These rules are setup by government and not by an ordinary organisation. If you need to become a teacher you need to have a minimum set of qualification, which includes holding a degree is a must and not just a certification. Holding a certification is only an added advantage. But, holding a degree ia must and we can't take anyone who is not qualified enough according to the rules. These rules can't be broken for anyone.

[skydolphin]

In the Mechanical Engineering field where I'am employed we recruited 3 people with degrees to do an analysis of the cost of using different materials for a clients project. The workers were unfocused and to be very frank had a very bad attitute and work ethic . We described the job duties and treated them very well. The project wasn't going anywhere. We tried a different approach. We hired temp workers with basic mechanical skills and sent them to school for a month. They are focused and brought a real vitality to the project. We offered them permanent work. They are now working for us on a regular basis. The college grads for all I know may only be working as a Barista at a famous Coffee house .

A strong work ethic, the ability to create solutions to problems as well as an understanding of the job yields results. Welcome to the real world.

You have to produce. A degree in a profession such as dentistry is a cogent endorsement of proficiency in a field. Other degrees especially unfocused ie (liberal arts)carry questionable merit. welcome to to the real world where you get paid for what you produce not for what you think you are.
In todays market there is a shortage of skilled workers that don't require degrees, whilst there is surplus of degree holders.

Governments are free to set their own standards even if that means screening out very qualified workers. We can't win them all. Money talks B___S___ walks.... you have to produce.. that is what matters.

[exported_kiwi]

Don't be too discouraged though as there are still places in China that'll take you without a degree.
Rajat is right though, it's Gov't regulations in most, if not all places, to have a degree. Maybe this proves that you have enough of an education to be able to be responsible for educating others. I have a degree, but when I came here(China), it wasn't really necessary. I'm glad I have it now because it allows me to pick and choose jobs. Without a degree, your options are much more limited and the pay/conditions won't be as good as a degree holder might get.

I don't think it's a matter of elitism just because some have degrees, and some don't. It's a matter of priorities back when we were getting the degree. If some folks have them, more power to them, if you don't, well, it's a choice you made, just as we made the choice to get one. This is the way of the world now, and carrying a chip on your shoulder about elitism, bigotry or racism doesn't wash in the real world where you made your bed. It's not others fault that you also now have to lie in it. Maybe the answer for you might be to do a "quickie" online course, just to be accredited and then you too, can be part of the so-called "elite".

As for TESOL etc, yes, valuable pieces of paper too, but in an increasingly competitive world, the best educated candidate wins out usually. I have no TESOL etc, but I will get one soon, not because I have to, but because I make the choice to so I can better perform my job and deliver an even better level of education to the folks who're paying us to do so.

Just food for thought, and this is my $15 worth, bill's in the mail, hehehe.

[ichini]

Originally Posted by skydolphin

Money talks B___S___ walks.... you have to produce.. that is what matters.

So what happens if you are not qualified but you can deliver? And then some huge error on your behalf occurs and injures a person. Since you are not "qualified" no insurance company will cover you.

There are many valid reasons why you need a university degree to work in certain fields. Would you trust someone to operate on you if the so called doctor has no degree? Definitely not.

[skydolphin]

The specific CONTENT of the degree MUST be considered. If a person has a Masters Degree in English then they are very likely qualified to teacher. On the other hand if a person has a Bachelors in ie. Pagan Religion and are not a native English speaker they are likely not. If a person as has a TESOL certificate, a three year post secondary diploma in Journalism and is multilingual and comes from a native English background I would consider her over the other candidate.

Government regulations of ALL governments often run contrary to common sense. It is too big of an issue to contest I won't even try. Beyond this an employer has latitude who they hire and the qualifications they require, even if they hire on an assumption that a degree is an endorsement of total proficiency. Thank God airline pilots, Doctors etc. are hired on the basis of attested SKILLS not just credentials. This isn't so in many fields and that is likely to change as companies become more competitive and want people with EXPERIENCE, not just an attestment from another party which some degrees are.

The TESOL field will be saturated as local people will become fluent in English and be able to teach their own people. The next wave of globe trotters will have to to have a cogent SKILLED TRADE to offer as there is a global shortage of SKILLED TRADES workers ie. specialized computer programmers and highly specialized TRADES people. A business minded employer wants a worker that yields practical results with experience. Academics has its limitations in the global work place these days.