ESL Teaching - Jobs, lesson plans - View Single Post - Warning: Hartford Institute/Raffles University

shaowmaster · Sat 05-Apr-08, 07:51 PM

Yeah, another guy complaining that what people here in Europe call diploma mill. You have your university degree from a rich country, and everything beound of a Master or Bachelor from an english or american university is not of your taste.

From an academic point of view the diplomas of Hartford English school are nothing worth - in 1'st world countries. Maybe you have in mind that the intention of this facility is NOT to provide any education of any scientific relevance.

It provides a certificate to allow to work (and stay) in lot of 2nd and 3rd world countries. This is good for backpackers on long term trips to survive and not to live in luxury. These people don't complain the conditions. You pay for the certificate and no other organisation recognises this paper than a Hartford School.

Talking about the real diploma mills: they claim to provide REAL scientific titles. There are lot of real diploma mills out there - pay 500$ and get your bachelor. Or 5000, for a Dr. or Ph.D.

And there are some professional schools, some universities in Asia providing Master courses which can be completed in 1-2 years just by filling out some exam forms over the net and reading some stuff if you only need the title, and you need 5 years with the local basics of education.

From the point of view of a mongolian citizen studying in such a facility it's different - they need 3 years and they have to learn a lot of stuff they don't have at school. The duty school is over after 4 years, and you can apply for additional 4 years in a college. After that you may enter the UB university for about 600$ a semester....

And having a title that qualifies for some work in the home country or abroad. Let's go to the AIT in Klong Luang: They mave master courses in environmental quality management that contains lab courses in chemistry, microbilology and other stuff. I (with a german education) could complete this course within 12 months, because I learned half of that in school. The locals don't. Here in Germany a Master from Thailand is officially not an academic title for entering the university in a postgraduate course, but in Mongolia or in Thailand you can live an affordable life by working in this job And for private business it's a title, and so you are different from all the self-made computer geeks applying for the same position.

But don't forget: what you call here a college degree or an university-entry level degree is often comparable to a Master or Bachelor in Mongolia, in Thailand, in China, Laos or anywhere else outside of Europe, North America and Australia.

You complain the lack of study material - you complain the prices - you complain everything.

My girlfriend studied chemistry in UB, and later she became an university teacher for chemistry and in this position she held lectures about 20 hours or more - in Ulan Bataar, and her income is about 3000$ a year. For this money she has to work about 60 hours a week, these lecture hours included. She worked also in the industry, got about 5000$ p.a. under work conditions which can be entitled as slavery. Inhuman.

And you complain that income in Mongolia is only about 2000$? You try to compare your 500 Pound certificate that you get after 2 weekends in England with a long term education of the people living in UB. As far as I know they pay 400$ a month for a fulltime teacher position.

This Hartford certificate is an opportunity to stay in Mongolia for a longer term, having a work permit in a country which has an avreage unemployment rate of 20%. Usually you cannot stay longer than 1 month - and lot of other countries are similar. If you don't love this country you see only the odds.

On my stay in Mongolia I met a lot of people, staying there with no income as peace corps volunteers. Only with some pocket money, mostly teaching english or helping poor farmers. I met others, where the parents made a donation to an NGO and so the NGO sent them where they want to go. Some people think it's cool to drive a brand new NGO car through the chaotic traffic of UB.

But this is a 30.000$ payment for 5 years. I met some people doing business in Mongolia like Mr. Schäfer who founded a german style brewery and who is now the biggest shareholder of APU and the owner of Khan Bräu.

I myself had to pay 45$ for a visa extension (3$ a day) being a tourist :-) I also met some students from the USA, doing some environmental studies in Khovd for 6 months - I met an australian woman studying music in Chovd for 5 years....

So I assume that your point of view (so few money, so much work, no study materials...) is not the right one. I would consider to get this Hardford certificate to be together with my Girlfriend in UB and doing some computer-related business on my own.

I personally have no university degree, only an MCP from Microsoft but anyway I made a career in IT business for now 12 years.

Sat 05-Apr-08, 07:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
shaowmaster ESL Newbie Join Date: Apr 2008 Occupation: database specialist Location: Posts: 3	Re: Warning: Hartford Institute/Raffles University Yeah, another guy complaining that what people here in Europe call diploma mill. You have your university degree from a rich country, and everything beound of a Master or Bachelor from an english or american university is not of your taste. From an academic point of view the diplomas of Hartford English school are nothing worth - in 1'st world countries. Maybe you have in mind that the intention of this facility is NOT to provide any education of any scientific relevance. It provides a certificate to allow to work (and stay) in lot of 2nd and 3rd world countries. This is good for backpackers on long term trips to survive and not to live in luxury. These people don't complain the conditions. You pay for the certificate and no other organisation recognises this paper than a Hartford School. Talking about the real diploma mills: they claim to provide REAL scientific titles. There are lot of real diploma mills out there - pay 500$ and get your bachelor. Or 5000, for a Dr. or Ph.D. And there are some professional schools, some universities in Asia providing Master courses which can be completed in 1-2 years just by filling out some exam forms over the net and reading some stuff if you only need the title, and you need 5 years with the local basics of education. From the point of view of a mongolian citizen studying in such a facility it's different - they need 3 years and they have to learn a lot of stuff they don't have at school. The duty school is over after 4 years, and you can apply for additional 4 years in a college. After that you may enter the UB university for about 600$ a semester.... And having a title that qualifies for some work in the home country or abroad. Let's go to the AIT in Klong Luang: They mave master courses in environmental quality management that contains lab courses in chemistry, microbilology and other stuff. I (with a german education) could complete this course within 12 months, because I learned half of that in school. The locals don't. Here in Germany a Master from Thailand is officially not an academic title for entering the university in a postgraduate course, but in Mongolia or in Thailand you can live an affordable life by working in this job And for private business it's a title, and so you are different from all the self-made computer geeks applying for the same position. But don't forget: what you call here a college degree or an university-entry level degree is often comparable to a Master or Bachelor in Mongolia, in Thailand, in China, Laos or anywhere else outside of Europe, North America and Australia. You complain the lack of study material - you complain the prices - you complain everything. My girlfriend studied chemistry in UB, and later she became an university teacher for chemistry and in this position she held lectures about 20 hours or more - in Ulan Bataar, and her income is about 3000$ a year. For this money she has to work about 60 hours a week, these lecture hours included. She worked also in the industry, got about 5000$ p.a. under work conditions which can be entitled as slavery. Inhuman. And you complain that income in Mongolia is only about 2000$? You try to compare your 500 Pound certificate that you get after 2 weekends in England with a long term education of the people living in UB. As far as I know they pay 400$ a month for a fulltime teacher position. This Hartford certificate is an opportunity to stay in Mongolia for a longer term, having a work permit in a country which has an avreage unemployment rate of 20%. Usually you cannot stay longer than 1 month - and lot of other countries are similar. If you don't love this country you see only the odds. On my stay in Mongolia I met a lot of people, staying there with no income as peace corps volunteers. Only with some pocket money, mostly teaching english or helping poor farmers. I met others, where the parents made a donation to an NGO and so the NGO sent them where they want to go. Some people think it's cool to drive a brand new NGO car through the chaotic traffic of UB. But this is a 30.000$ payment for 5 years. I met some people doing business in Mongolia like Mr. Schäfer who founded a german style brewery and who is now the biggest shareholder of APU and the owner of Khan Bräu. I myself had to pay 45$ for a visa extension (3$ a day) being a tourist :-) I also met some students from the USA, doing some environmental studies in Khovd for 6 months - I met an australian woman studying music in Chovd for 5 years.... So I assume that your point of view (so few money, so much work, no study materials...) is not the right one. I would consider to get this Hardford certificate to be together with my Girlfriend in UB and doing some computer-related business on my own. I personally have no university degree, only an MCP from Microsoft but anyway I made a career in IT business for now 12 years.